BEER AND A 20 YEAR OLD! ANYONE??????

[LUV2Cruz2]

It really doesn't matter what anyone believes. In some states it's against the law for an adult to serve a minor alcohol, in their home or anywhere else. Florida drinking laws are very strict.

I'm sure any parent could get away with it in their home, as they can get away with smoking pot and sharing it with their children as well.

In other countries like Italy, it is common for children at the age of 5 do be drinking wine with their meals. One of the problems in the USA is we tend to do everything in excess. How many parents know if their children are not predisposed to become alcoholics or drug addicts?

There are plenty of articles on the internet of parents serving time in jail for serving their own children alcohol in their homes. All it takes is for another family member to call child services or a neighbor to call child services.

I know some parents mean well and don't intend to get their children started on the way to having a disease later in life. Alcohol is a drug and it causes plenty of problems for millions of people and alcohol abuse affects innocent people too. I lost a dear cousin because of a drunk driver. The driver was 18 years old, my cousin was 12 and got run down.

 

[VictoriaJ]

Thank you Sodey!!!!!!!!!!!

Their seems to be many people here with issues regarding alcahol.......
I'm not talking about drinking & driving.....
I know drinking & driving is very serious..Thats why I taught my kids NEVER to do that...
Unless my kid said "Hey captain, can I take the wheel for a while?" a drink on a cruise ship in a public place is NO BIG DEAL! She is almost 21.

I guess nobody here ever puffed a butt before the right age...had a sip of alcahol....went to an R rated movie before 17...(closed your eyes when flipping past MTV) Sodey, I know you peeked at the MTV! HAHA! Just kiding...

I'm sorry for all who had a bad experience with another person related to alcahol but many incidents that happen are not always under age drinkers.. If you teach your kids to be responsible from the start, they grow up to be responsible adults.....I have seen way to many drunk adults who should know better.

 

[CanadynGrl2]

It is kind of funny that in so many countries around the world people under 21 are permitted to drink and many do so responsibly. And yet cruise lines, who often register their ships in many of these countries, subscribe to the US notion of 21+ to drink.

Lowering the drinking age to a more reasonable age, to me, would mean fewer ADULTS drinking under age. I support 18 or 19 as a reasonable age to permit legal drinking, though I do not, in any way advocate drinking to excess.

We make things "wrong" or "taboo" and it becomes a challenge for kids to get away with it. I don't know that I am going anywhere in particular with this post but to suggest that drinking ages shouldn't be so arbitrary, particularly on cruises where the ship is often of a foreign registry, the law is international common law and the guests on the ship hail from many different countries. When I am in the US I expect US laws to pertain to me - even though I am Canadian. When I am in Canada I expect Canadian laws. If I should go to any other country, I would respect the laws of that country.

Off my soap box (it was just a little one anyhow).

Tracey

wooohooo... Inspiration - August 22nd/04

 

[MrsPete]

NYEric -- For the average person -- especially boys -- internal organs aren't completely mature at 18. Additionally, many boys have not reached their full height by 18. My brother went into the Navy at 18, and I remember he was angry because he had to buy all new uniform pants only a year later. I've seen lots of high school graduates who've come back to visit the school 1-2 years later visibly taller.

Sodey -- I'm sorry that you see gathering facts and making informed decisions logically as lacking in common sense. Other than to twist my words and invent extreme examples, you have not been able to refute any of my statements. You've given reasons why you think children should be allowed to drink alcohol, but all your reasoning could be prefaced by "I think . . ." or "I believe . . . " Of course, we're all allowed our own opinions on things and our opinions are often swayed by our emotions, but those opinions should have SOME factual basis behind them. Actually, if we were all going to be completely logical, we wouldn't drink at all -- we all know it's not good for us, yet I don't hear anyone advocating a return to prohibition.

You say that I'm not thinking for myself because I do care about the facts; I'd suggest that you are acting on instinct and feelings rather than thinking the subject through. Perhaps it's a matter of whether we choose to use our heads or our hearts in making decisions.

To several posters listing old-fashioned home remedies -- I'm sure you know that many medical procedures that used to be common practice are now considered unacceptable. Leaches and bleeding come to mind right away, though they are extreme examples. Here's a more reasonable example: My mother's generation was taught to make homemade baby formula at home; today we know that it's definitely second-rate and no one does that anymore. Personally, I'd consider whiskey/honey in that category -- antiques. Furthermore, we all know that some modern medicines do contain alcohol -- Nyquil, for example. BUT -- back to Sodey's common sense -- we're talking about TEACHING children about alcohol and responsible use; I don't see that an occasional dose medicine is going to help or hurt the child's future drinking HABITS. And the habits that we teach our children are what matters most in the long run (for this particular subject anyway).

Luv2Cruise -- I agree with your statement about Americans tending to take everything to excess. As a people, we have many strengths, but that's one of our cultural weaknesses.

 

[MandyBear]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Sodey]

My aunt and uncle both died from alcohol.

My cousin is an alcoholic.

One of my best friends is an alcoholic and I was the one originally to go to his wife and tell her I believed her husband was an alcoholic. (I came to this conclusion after studying alcoholism and it's symptoms and causes.) She couldn't believe it but finally came to the realization I was right and it took her filing for divorce to get him in to a clinic. That was over 7 years ago and it took a great toll on me emotionally. He and his wife never did divorce and he recently had a relapse where I thought he would die but he checked back in and is doing ok.

I teach a parent group with my church called "The 7 cries of todays teens" based on a book by the same name. (Very good read).

I have spent considerable time (quality time) with many teenagers. I'll be spending 1 full week primitive camping with 7 of them starting July 10th (Boundary Waters Wilderness Area) in Northern Minnesota.

I also go on Mission Trips with them. I have had 4 teenagers of my own. 3 still are teenagers.

I am also a High School Varsity Coach of young men.

I was the Board Chairperson of Youth and Family for 4 years at my church.

I was also interviewd on the Today Show just this past April (I had to throw that in somewhere!)

So, Mrs Pete, It isn't just a feeling that I have that directs my actions. It's getting my hands dirty and getting close and personal with kids and adults and dealing with all their issues, problems, and relationships whether it be substance abuse, divorce, physical, sexual, you name it, I get right into it.

I just did a search on Google and couldn't find one parent arrested for providing alcohol under the circumstances I've described. If you find one, let me know where it is.
I'll use it in my next discussion.

Sodey

 

[VictoriaJ]

Sodey....you go!
Sorry I missed you on TV...I'm a Good Morning America watcher!

I just don't get some posters who KEEP saying Americans drink to much...What are the countries that have kids (who are not developed because they are under 18?) drink wine at 13???????
Germany is one. 13 year olds were drinking wine when I was their 19 years ago.... Other countried allow it also so it's not Americans!

 

[Sodey]

Victoria, You're my kind of person!

My interview didn't last long so you didn't miss much.

I'm not and you're not saying that all kids should drink.

We're just saying that there are times when a child under 21 can have a drink with their parent or guardian and take it for what it's worth. A special moment of bonding or whatever. It's saying, "Hey you're almost considered an adult and I'm going to do certain things to start treating you like one". We're not saying "Call all your friends and lets get hammered"!

Some day we may meet on a cruise and share a laugh about how much action your original post received.

Sodey

 

[VictoriaJ]

Sodey,
It's funny I wasn't going to come on anymore now that my cruise has past but I think I will need to check in to see what other post come up under this thread.....

I'm trying to talk hubby into planning our next cruise but we never really think of our summer vacation until the holidays...
I guess I'll have more controversal questions around the holidays........Like "Should Santa have a shot to keep warm on that long cold ride??"
Sorry,I couldn't resist!

 

[Sodey]

Victoria,

We started cruising because my older kids that are in college saw it as a "Cool" vacation and were willing to "Clear" their summer job and social calandars to make the trip and go on the family summer vacation. Now, that's all they talk about so we try to plan one every year as long as we can afford it. It won't be long before all the kids are out of the house so I cherish the time we can spend together.

So, I'll check back periodically to see if you have "Rattled" any more cages with socially accepted and un-accepted behavior.

Take Care.

Sodey

 

[Belizemama]

I hope we can all agree to disagree on this subject. It has been argued to death here, and this isn't really the board for it IMHO. There is and always will be controversy about this.

Sodey, you sound like a really intelligent person, who has his hands in a lot of pots. Good for you. I am glad someone who really cares is dealing with our kids.

As for my posting about my Mom giving me tea, with honey and whiskey in it....I was NOT saying we should still do this. I was just stating (in what I thought of as a humorous way) that it certainly kept me from ever acquiring a taste for hard alcohol. That is all I meant by this. Why do people try to read so much into an innocent or joking statement? :?

 

[coffeecups]

Sodey

I love what you did when your kids turned 13. As a teacher, I wish that we had more parents like you. Too many times society throws the responsibility of kids growing up properly, under the umbrella of education. It does not belong there. Wish we had more parents like you.

Also wish I knew you as a friend 12 years ago. I wish I could go on a cruise with you and sophie and turkeyman and ken2001 and a few others here. Unfortunaleyl, I can only cruise during the summer.

coffeecups

 

[Sodey]

That's when I cruise too! Turkeyman will cruise anytime as long as it's the Conquest out of Nawlins.

As for Sophie, just tell her that Carnival has closed all topless sunbathing unless it's a summer cruise.

Ken2001? Well, he'll just follw Sophie!

I too started out as a teacher but then started my own company 25 years ago. I recently went back to coaching because my son is on the team and I missed the High School experience as a teacher/coach. Can't afford to give up my real job though.

 

[coffeecups]

I think Sophie likes spring and maybe winter- she is going in Jan. Maybe I can get her to go during the summer so that she can show me where her deck is (with clothes on of course). And I am like turkeyman, why fly when the boat is 10 miles from home and my whole plan is to do nothing- especially not driving.

Maybe we can all get together in summer of 2006 in n.o.


coffeecups

ps Sodey, I used to think that teachers got no respect. Well, my wife is a salaried accountant and they get LESS respect. No such word as overtime in her job, as far as money is concerned. Also, many businesses count accountants as a burden. If only they knew that a good, loyal, happy accountant could save them money, like my wife did once (above and beyond her normal obligatiions) with some escrow taxes ($48,000).



Post Edited (07-04-04 13:48)

 

[LUV2Cruz2]

Just a note to the person who said the drinking age in Hawaii is 18. That is wrong the drinking age in ALL 50 states is 21.

And to Sodey, in Florida if a parent serves their minor children alcohol and someone reports them to the authorities they will be arrested for child endangerment. So, if you're in Florida and you break that law, make sure your children are sworn to secrecy never to tell anyone that you are breaking the law. That should be another extra little burden put on them as if children these days don't have enough burdens put on them at their young ages.

There is no way for me to link the cases, but if you go to the clerks of the court sites in Florida's countie's government site and public records you can find a few cases during the past 2 years of child endangerment involving parents serving alcohol to their children.

Alcoholism is a disease and tends to run in families and children can be predisposed to it.

This is a very personal issue with me and I hate to see adults who really believe they're not doing any harm justifying the abuse of children in this manner. I'm not talking about you personally, it's just a subject that I've dealt with for a long time and have had plenty of experience dealing with. I've seen many many children who have alcohol problems and the disease and so many of them tell us that their parents always allowed them to drink when they were at home.

Sorry. I'm not judging you, but I care for the children...all of them.

 

[MrsPete]

Sodey -- I'm glad that you're an involved parent; our kids need more of those! As a teacher, I see many parents who figure that their job is done once the kids reach high school. Between school, church, two clubs that I sponsor, and home, I also spend a great deal of time with tweens and teens, so I'm also well aquainted with their issues; however, we have certainly reached different conclusions about this topic.

I'm amazed that you've had family members die from alcohol-related problems, yet you're open to teens drinking. I consider it playing with fire.

As for parents who've been arrested for allowing their children to drink, I have no idea whether there are any articles online. Another poster who said that there were cases online, though I have not looked; my main concerns for under-age drinking deal with health and habits. I wouldn't dismiss the legal aspect altogether, but I don't consider it the #1 reason to avoid teen drinking. Without really knowing about it, I'd suspect that the most common thing would be one divorced parent turning the other divorced parent in for allowing alcohol consumption -- but that's just a guess.

Luv2Cruz2 -- I know that the drinking age in Hawaii is 21 NOW. However, they were the last of the 50 states to raise their drinking age, and I was talking about WHY the drinking ages were changed years ago in -- I think -- the 1980s.

I'm glad someone understands that early alcohol use is strongly correlated with alcoholism in later life, and it's just too dangerous a risk.

 

[LUV2Cruz2]

Mrspete, sorry for the misunderstanding.

The children are the most important people in the world, they WILL be the world. I just don't want to see them have any more obstacles put in their way when they're young. Children learn by example and they also learn from their peers. No matter how well you think you've reared them, there will come a time when they have to make a choice and sometimes the choices they make are not the ones you think they would have chosen.

Some parents could have 5 children and 4 of them may be able to handle alcohol with no problem and one of them could end up with the disease...no matter how careful and well meaning the parents seem to be.

I try to encourage parents to be parents and not friends to their children. They have plenty of friends, in most cases they only have 2 parents.
=soapbox

 

[coffeecups]

I guess that I am in middle of this drinking and alcoholism. My father was an alcoholic for over 33 years and would never accept that fact. He always said that he was a drunk. (his words). He stopped about 5 years before dying of sclerosis of the liver. He said that (when he finally stopped) that he couldn't fight off the sickness afterwards. (dt's i guess).

My uncles and aunt on his side also liked to drink, but not quite as bad. I did have one uncle who wiped out 9 other cars while drinking. And the first time my wife met my aunt, she was pretty well 3 sails to the wind.

Today, there are still people waiting for one of my 2 brothers or me to become an alcoholic. And believe me, with our poor upbringing and being in foster families, etc, etc, each of us could well have become one. Thank God none of us hasn't.

Now, many years ago I met a girl (she was 16 at the time) and her family ALWAYS served wine at dinner. (That probably my first experience with alcohol). Anyway, that girl did develop alcoholism.

I really think what Sodey was saying is that even though he ?? has alcoholism in his family, he ?? KNOWS his kids WELL ENOUGH to give them a taste of alcohol. My friend with the alcohol problem had other problems and her family did not really know her. I really liked her parents, but she was always a problem to them. This is the difference between parents like Sodey and a parent like mine and L's.

I'm not saying that one or more of Sodey's kids will never become alcoholics, but I can put money on it that they won't. Because, Sodey knows his kids and seems smart enough to nip the problem in the bud. This is a very similar situatiion to school. We try having Parent/Teacher conferences (school day is even set aside for this). And just like Sodey, out of 110 students I may have, I WILL ALWAYS SEE THE FEW (FEW) PARENTS WHO CARE ABOUT THEIR KIDS. And these 15 out of 110 kids are the ones who are passing and really don't have any or many discipline problems. We very seldom see the parents of the problem kids. Go figure!

I do agree that Sodey may have to keep his actions QUIET, because there is always someone out there ready to cause trouble.

By the way, right above me, in my credenza are 2 bottles of champagne which I didn't bring on board. I did bring a bottle of amerreto ( I still have most of it and another bottle). I did drink some of it on the ship. In fact, I got a few stares when I brought my big, large quart drink cup and filled it with punch (on lido deck). I already had atleast 3 shots of amerreto in the cup. I didn't get drunk, had a good time and killed any montezuma bugs. lol

I guess that my long winded point is that legal or not- we must know our kids. I see it in the classroom everyday. They know how far to push a teacher's buttons and what they can and cannot get away with. They have been practicing on their parents for a much longer time.

Sorry for the sermon, now lets all go find a good cruise!!!

coffeecups

 

[VictoriaJ]

Sodey............I think I'm about to do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, for a few messages it looked like this subject was closed...However, Now I see some just want to beat it to death!!!

Who said agree to dis-agree?????? Why is it so hard to do???? Just like abortion, Their are different opinions.....(Don't worry, I won't dare state mine!)

Their are MUCH bigger issues our kids have to face out their.......Does anyone remember DRUGS???? AIDS???? How about DIVORSE??? You know what that can do to your kid.... Some kids drink & do drugs dur to the fact their parents don't know how to get along a break up families and leave kids home alone....

Do you realize that parents who share a drink with a kid at age 20 is not doing anything to cause their kid to have a disease??? And how many kids are not having a beer at age 20 at their friend dorms or partys????????
NOT MY KID! HA!

Did you know if your kids get involved with drugs they could die the first time they try it depending on what it is???? I know of someone who died doing coke just once... Did too much and didn't know they had a heart condition....My nephew at age 31 died of a drug OD....two months ago....

Your kids arteries are most likely clogging due to all the fast food s--t they eat...They will most likely need by-pass surgery at age 45! Not to mention may die of that.

You can find many, many things that are harmful to kids....A well rounded kid will know how to handel situations that come up........I'm married 23 years and one thing I learned about raising kids is to teach kids to be responsible is the most important thing a parent can do for their kids...
I would love to be a fly on the wall at all your kids dorms or partys.... I would eat my hat if you can find a kid who has not had a beer.......

I'm sure I have ruffeled some more feathers but, I am a wonderful parent with two wonderful WELL ROUNDED kids.. I don't like being made to feel like i'm a criminal because my 20 year old had a beer......I realize some people have had very unfortunite things happen due to alcahol but that is not the case for every kid that has a beer.....
I'm not talking about thie kids that drink & drive....That happens with adults over 21!! Most likely did not have a responsible parent to teach them when they were younger.....

Thats all I have to say...................
Victoria

 

[scuba-dude]

Let me start off by saying I respect everyones opinion and I am not accusing anyone of being a bad parent. However, as a Law Enforcement Officer that works with children on a daily basis I can say this to all the parents. Just be careful, alcohol is considered to be a gateway drug, this means alcohol can and does tempt young adults to start experimenting with marijuana, extacy, and many other drugs which are far more harmful than alchohol. If you are going to allow them to drink, please talk with them about responibility for their lives as well as those around them. The worst thing a cop has to do is go to a parents house at 2:00am and inform a parent their child died in a car wreck while high on alcohol or drugs. I have had to do this three times in my career and it takes alot of time for me to get over the parents reactions. Please take the time to talk to your children and help them understand the dangers. They will be tempted (more than you think)and the choice is theirs to make.